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	<title>Comments on: Devolving Sigils</title>
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	<link>http://blog.fogus.me/2009/02/26/devolving-sigils/</link>
	<description>λ λ λ</description>
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		<title>By: Joey</title>
		<link>http://blog.fogus.me/2009/02/26/devolving-sigils/comment-page-1/#comment-13196</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fogus.me/?p=1694#comment-13196</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;But, Charles Simonyi is a million times smarter than me, so maybe I’m wrong,&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There is no one so smart that they can&#039;t be wrong.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;But, Charles Simonyi is a million times smarter than me, so maybe I’m wrong,&#8221;</i></p>

<p>There is no one so smart that they can&#8217;t be wrong.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: a</title>
		<link>http://blog.fogus.me/2009/02/26/devolving-sigils/comment-page-1/#comment-3143</link>
		<dc:creator>a</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 05:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fogus.me/?p=1694#comment-3143</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Not all dialogues use sigils in the same way. ↩&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think you mean &quot;dialects&quot;?&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
  <p>Not all dialogues use sigils in the same way. ↩</p>
</blockquote>

<p>I think you mean &#8220;dialects&#8221;?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: fogus</title>
		<link>http://blog.fogus.me/2009/02/26/devolving-sigils/comment-page-1/#comment-3140</link>
		<dc:creator>fogus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fogus.me/?p=1694#comment-3140</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@SJS&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s strange that someone would call you a degenerate because you happen to find Perl more readable than Python.  Topics like sigils tend to evoke very subjective responses.  To me, the capital letter stands out very clearly from the lower case letter, even after 10 years of IRC usage.  ;)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Hungarian notation has a few issues as far as I can see:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Any change in a variable&#039;s type, intention, and/or scope &lt;em&gt;always&lt;/em&gt; requires a set of code changes.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;In the case of type, it further increases the annotation requirements of already annotation-heavy languages (i.e. C, C++, Java)&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Many current IDEs make it irrelevant&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;It is very heavy compared to the benefit gained by using it.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;It&#039;s bolted onto the host language and therefore not even supported intrinsically.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But, Charles Simonyi is a million times smarter than me, so maybe I&#039;m wrong, but Hungarian Notation has a twinge of OCD to it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;-m&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@SJS</p>

<p>It&#8217;s strange that someone would call you a degenerate because you happen to find Perl more readable than Python.  Topics like sigils tend to evoke very subjective responses.  To me, the capital letter stands out very clearly from the lower case letter, even after 10 years of IRC usage.  ;)</p>

<p>Hungarian notation has a few issues as far as I can see:</p>

<ol>
<li>Any change in a variable&#8217;s type, intention, and/or scope <em>always</em> requires a set of code changes.</li>
<li>In the case of type, it further increases the annotation requirements of already annotation-heavy languages (i.e. C, C++, Java)</li>
<li>Many current IDEs make it irrelevant</li>
<li>It is very heavy compared to the benefit gained by using it.</li>
<li>It&#8217;s bolted onto the host language and therefore not even supported intrinsically.</li>
</ol>

<p>But, Charles Simonyi is a million times smarter than me, so maybe I&#8217;m wrong, but Hungarian Notation has a twinge of OCD to it.</p>

<p>-m</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: SJS</title>
		<link>http://blog.fogus.me/2009/02/26/devolving-sigils/comment-page-1/#comment-3137</link>
		<dc:creator>SJS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 03:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fogus.me/?p=1694#comment-3137</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The problem of using alphabetical characters as sigils introduces exactly the same problem as Hungarian Notation -- it confuses the reader, who has no doubt spent years building up equivalence between upper case and lower case letters (especially if they spend any time on IRC).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Personally, I find Perl much easier to read than Python, Clojure, or Scala (and CLISP, ML, OCaML, too), and it&#039;s not because I use Perl every day (I don&#039;t). That hasn&#039;t kept the local Python evangelists from calling me a liar and a degenerate, alas.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem of using alphabetical characters as sigils introduces exactly the same problem as Hungarian Notation &#8212; it confuses the reader, who has no doubt spent years building up equivalence between upper case and lower case letters (especially if they spend any time on IRC).</p>

<p>Personally, I find Perl much easier to read than Python, Clojure, or Scala (and CLISP, ML, OCaML, too), and it&#8217;s not because I use Perl every day (I don&#8217;t). That hasn&#8217;t kept the local Python evangelists from calling me a liar and a degenerate, alas.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: fogus</title>
		<link>http://blog.fogus.me/2009/02/26/devolving-sigils/comment-page-1/#comment-3136</link>
		<dc:creator>fogus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 01:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.fogus.me/?p=1694#comment-3136</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@Matt&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Thanks for the post, honestly I have never seen Perl sigils explained in that way, but my experience with it has been brief.  While I can see your point, I am not sure that I can see the distinction between my current understanding (datatype category) and your approach.  In fact, when reading Perl code I was essentially doing what you describe.  Don&#039;t get me wrong, I respect Perl and admire the people I&#039;ve worked with who can speak it fluently -- but my mind has trouble digesting it in the same way that it can with Clojure, Python, or even Scala.
-m&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Matt</p>

<p>Thanks for the post, honestly I have never seen Perl sigils explained in that way, but my experience with it has been brief.  While I can see your point, I am not sure that I can see the distinction between my current understanding (datatype category) and your approach.  In fact, when reading Perl code I was essentially doing what you describe.  Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I respect Perl and admire the people I&#8217;ve worked with who can speak it fluently &#8212; but my mind has trouble digesting it in the same way that it can with Clojure, Python, or even Scala.
-m</p>]]></content:encoded>
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